As I said in OP, if you are Roman Emperor you cannot designate heir for your top tittle. However, a religion can only have one "unit modifier", so offensive pagans will lose levy size and other bonuses if they select a reformation feature that adds a competing "unit modifier". Also Temporal gives u cool(gives tons of piety and prestige per month) lvl 4 artifact . I like equality. I have received few private messages and some even answered to the thread when the post was very old. The best Doctrines by far are the two "Clans" option with the slight edge to Enatic. AI rulers only try to convert provinces if zealous. Havent seen many posts about reforming the Bon religion. Example: Your sister matri marries some guy from Ashina dynasty, they have a daughter for example, all you have to do is to matri marry her to your male heir. Inbreeding can be offset with concubines/polygamy. Great Holy War against a single disfigured child. You want to conquer followers of the Cross/Crescent anyways. Some of them are stronger than the regular doctrines. AI rulers are less likely to start wars, plots and factions. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Need the +3 demense to have enough personal levies and also +15 opinion combined with Augustus trait and Born in the Purple ( another +15 opinion) is pretty OP. No females in the council. Our domain can only grow overtime and we can develop our provinces without fear of it being lost to gavelkind. Ship maintenance reduced to 10%. Nature: Peaceful ( you will rule a massive empire as a Roman and will mostly have Vassal Kings. They also cannot reform to Feudalism or a Merchant Republic unless they Reform or convert to a non-pagan religion. This severely slows down early-game conquest of the typically smaller, fractious pagan realms by expanding Abrahamics. Ruler does not receive opinion penalties for raised vassal levies. More posts you may like r/CrusaderKings Join 3 days ago CK2 6.4K 103 r/CrusaderKings 5 days ago The Slavic faith is almost gone in the 1066 starting date, and the faith disappears from the world entirely by 1200. The selection of Leadership style determines the type of religious head. Agnatic law is enforced, open succession law is unlocked. Messalianism because it's the single most outlandish religion in the game. In addition, all pagan faiths can be reformed. They then become the "Reformed" version. If dawnbreakers would have divine marriage paired with something else than polygamy it would be tier 1. Nature: Unyielding sounds good on paper, but if you plan on having a large realm I'm not sure it's great because it takes a long time for counties to change to your religion. Hard to Convert. Rulers lose prestige when at peace for too long. If you have tribal government, it is recommended to choose either Agnatic Clans or Enatic Clans doctrine to avoid Gavelkind succession law. I used syncretism as my doctrine in my Jurchen Bon game, its nice little bonus to relations if we want multi-culti empire, with a bit of rng help we can get 2 sympathies at once (with the use of faith focus). I like Romuva and Suomensusko the best but I don't have much experience with Bon but I think I'll try them soon. It just looks so good: +80% Defense and +80% morale for all units if fighting at county of this religion. Eldership Succession law is available, Bloodthirsty Gods + Seabound + Unrelenting, Rulers do not receive opinion penalties for raised vassal levies + Syncretism + Meritocracy. +1 piety per month while at peace. Invaders are only here because they have 3 shitty doctrines that are good when they are packed in one slot. Reforming a faith costs 750 piety. There are 6 Natures you can choose from, all with their advantages and disadvantages: Peaceful Bonuses +3 Demesne limit. Hellenic Paganism : A. Rurik Rurikid, Petty King of Holmgarr in 867, is the historical founder of the Russian Empire. Holding the Blood Games in the Grand Amphitheater grants an additional 200 Prestige. AI looters prefer coastal counties. Partially redundant with Children of Perun doctrine. Foreign rulers will sometimes send missionaries. Pagans follow the old polytheistic traditions, spurning the Abrahamic and Indian religions' talk of a segregation between physical and spiritual realms in favor of polytheistic physical gods. If consorts are available and the Peaceful religion nature and Tribalist traits from Autonomous leadership outweigh the Short Reign penalty (and the player ensures that most vassals are of the player's dynasty), it makes sense to pick Divine Marriage instead of Stability, to get an even higher score from Divine marriages, in situations where inbreeding is already likely. it isnt meant to be celtic pagan or any pagan religion in particular. No Revolt Risk for different religion in county. The nearby county of Novgorod has a third holy site, which can be conquered relatively easily. I think that'd be the best. Pagan religions retain some features when reformed, regardless of the features chosen during reformation. Just know ahead of time that the owner of the title can't marry or be betrothed unless they have another title like count or something. Dogmatic: See above. Raiding culture allows the use of armies to raid while fabricating claims, and still get piety for remaining at peace. By doing a Pagan Reformation, the player decides to change the way their religion works for their CK2 playthrough. If the last two holy sites are difficult to reach, the best way to obtain the necessary moral authority is through county conquests and raids. Here is an extensive CK2 guide about Pagan Reformation, where we explain all Natures, Doctrines, and Leadership options. However, other rulers will have a choice. However, invaders can negate the attrition by quickly building a fort in each province they enter, or by having Military Organization 4 in their capital. I used it in my game Tengri Horde Jurchen Reformed Bon Chinese Empire and just dominated silk road. Eldership succession law is allowed. After the 1200s, most of Lithuania is feudal and by 1337, it stands as the last pagan kingdom in Europe, surrounded by Teutonic Order, Golden Horde, Poland and Novgorod. Aztec Pyramid construction. Once that is done, you will also need 750 piety and 50% moral authority to start the process. =/. The African faith is followed by the peoples of sub-Saharan Africa. So I decided to update my list after I played some Holy Fury. Similar story with Ancestor Veneration, but with more hassle of sucking up to the old dudes, the one disadvantage of Ancestor Veneration is that we must pick either Hierocratic or Autocephalous leadership (I think). You have to get a popemon or autocephaly for it though. Children of Perun is weak. The reason I don't like to pick it is that the bonuses apply to my vassals and makes them much stronger. Haruspicy and Astrology effects. They start as feudal, are unable to raid, have lesser chance to convert county religion, do not suffer from increased short reign penalties and may use ultimogeniture succession law instead of gavelkind. Autonomous leadership bonus for an attribute depends on original pagan religion. Due to the Germanic faith's long and combative relationship with Catholic western Europe, there are a number of unique events between them. If you've ever wondered about in CK2, how do you change religion, now you know! In fact I was really surprised they didn't do anything with Manichaeanism in HL. Enatic-cognatic law is available. Dogmatic Nature + Unrelenting Doctrine is a pretty powerful combination as it gives a flat 10% attack bonus to all units as well as makes your religion MA always high meaning easier polythesising, not to mention the removal of pagan attrition from your reformed religion, allowing you to continue ripping pagan lands to shreds without melting. In fact, if they have high moral authority, and have damaged rival religions' moral authority with their conquests and stolen holy sites, or control unreformed pagan lands, they will soon be flooded with notices of conversions of territories that are held by their vassals, who will put forth serious effort to convert their lands to their new faith. Hellenic paganism was the faith of the Greco-Roman world before the rise of Christianity. However, by 1337, only two chiefs in northern Finland/Sweden follow the faith, with the rest of Finno-Ugric lands being divided between Catholic/Orthodox Christians and the Sunni Golden Horde. Certain pagans have access to additional succession laws. No Revolt Risk for different religion in county. Helps a lot when vs crusades or aztecs trying to meme on you. This attrition only applies in provinces of the same religion as their ruler, so Germanic pagans won't lower their enemies' supply limits in Slavic territory. AI rulers are less likely to start wars, plots and factions. CK2 Pagan Reformation - Natures The first thing you will choose is one Nature. Incompatible with Agnatic Clans, Harmonious, Equality, Polygamy and Meritocracy doctrines. I'm still mad how badly Shia got shafted over the development of the game. "Why would you want infidels to tolerate you? Most pagan faiths permit female temple holders regardless of gender law; exceptions are noted below. JavaScript is disabled. Edit: mixed it up, retaining matrilineal lines if you ever want to go back to male rulers will be trouble, not the other way around. I usually take unyielding but in the future I think I'll go with Proselytizing. True, but I wanted to avoid cheese/gamey mechanics when making this tierlist. In early start dates Kiev is vulnerable to Tengri nomads (it borders the Magyars), so you may find that fabricating a claim to conquer Rugen is an easier way to get your third holy site. Each one can only occur at a certain, and different, time each year. No penalty for female ruler. Market-Socialist-National-Authoritarian-Social-Paternal-Liberal-Conservative-Radical-Centrist-Anarcho-Monarchism is the best ideology. Reformed offensive pagans no longer lose prestige when at peace. Community Patch with Improved Genetics 2.0 and Other Mods, Pagan Ancestor and Sea King Bloodline Changes, https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Bloodline#Ancestor_Veneration_Bloodlines. Only if I could mark "Helpful" multiple times Is making your concubine who was a "raid-captured daughter of enemy duke" your vassal queen, and then murdering her an exploit? Unlocks Raiding if unavailable (e.g. Pagans tend to be powerful in early years but weaken as time passes for several reasons: There is hope, however: should the Pagan faiths become reformed, the faith's survival is almost set in stone. GHWs are especially useful for Germanic Fylkirs, who can select the target and timing of the attack. but i'm talking about game mechanics here, compared to Catholicism, Orthodoxy in-game has nothing unique really, hell, it didn't even have it's own Holy Order till recently. If allowed to spread their religion, they will in time ask the ruler to convert. Women can take up to 3 consorts. If it doesnt then Children of Perun is tier 3 really, nothing cool in it, I think it was specifically designed to sail rivers around Russia. Unyielding is a must for small Pagan surrounded by powerful Abrahamic realms. Feudal rulers bordering rivers will eventually increase their fort level to the point that Germanic pagans can no longer navigate those rivers. Unyielding also reduces AI aggressiveness, which can be a negative if you want your AI vassals to attack/invade your enemies for you. The sun is reflected beautifully on his bald head. Sacrificing prisoners unlocks special traits, actions, and a bloodline that grants Prestige for sacrifices as well. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. It's included in Children of Perun and Survivors of Ukko btw. choosing Polygamy for Hellenism, which has no access to concubinage or choosing the Children of Perun doctrine to make use of major Russian rivers to transport armies). The Faith of Zun is a sun-worshiping pagan religion introduced in the Charlemagne expansion. For the reference https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans#Reformation, Nature: Two tiers here. Finding one of the few Hellenic characters, and having them educate your child or granting them a title: This page was last edited on 16 August 2022, at 07:19. Generic Pagan rulers cannot be created with Ruler Designer but there are few events in game which spawn Pagan courtiers to game, which permit granting of titles or education of children. (There is one exception. Posted January 4, 2019. Information, Frequently Asked Thread starter Mr. Moonlight; Start date Sep 13, . Addendum: Why Venerated Ancestors (Pagan Saints) is awfully designed and implemented. Can proselytize in pagan capital even when tribal or nomad. It's a bit of a challenge but shouldn't be too much for any player with a bit of experience. These doctrines can be picked no matter the reformer's religion. With the exception of the reformed Germanic religion, the faith will also immediately gain a holy order. Valve Corporation. Reformer picks two doctrines. Having young concubines (below the age of 45) gives a monthly prestige gain, which is especially useful for tribal and nomadic pagans. (Hellenic religion lacks concubines), You can't declare holy wars if You have the peaceful doctrine. With Monks and Mystics, Zunists characters may join the Hermetic Society. Because raiding counts as war, and they have county conquest casus belli that require no reason for war, however, few rulers need find themselves short on wars for long. I disagree here. Male pagan rulers may take up to three concubines in addition to a wife (except for Hellenic pagans who cannot have multiple spouses or concubines unless the polygamy doctrine is chosen when reforming). For tribal pagans, reforming makes it easier to raise tribal organization. Playing from this start is more difficult, as Kiev is bordered to the south by the Tengri Khaganate of Magyars. Sometimes simple solutions are the best. West African religion is a blanket term for the diverse pagan beliefs of the tribes of Sub-Saharan West Africa. If there is levy size & attack bonus from unreformed religion or morale bonus from Animistic doctrine in the first doctrine slot, it is lost. Pagan vassals are more likely to seek independence, and gain warscore more rapidly than others in independence wars. In game terms, reformed pagans no longer face the restrictions on crown authority, succession, independence wars and conversion that other pagans do. Traits inherited from unreformed religion. What options do you think is best for each, norse, slavic, tengri, etc? I wish it was more interactive (e.g. You also have to remember the example you've given is a really fringe situation exploiting several mechanics. Enatic-cognatic law is available. No female temple holders. Is it really cheesy/gamey though? Flat bonus to levy, garrison size and moral. Also Hellenic religion lacks concubines. AI rulers only try to convert provinces if zealous. The devs deliberately made it so that certain societies will let you remain a member even if you are the "wrong" religion. Women can take up to 3 consorts. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Incompatible with Harmonious, Agnatic Clans and Enatic Clans doctrines. "IN THEORY" 95% of the time it works every time. Religious tax wouldn't be that high tier for me, I see it as rather pointless. Stability removes short reign penalty, which was not a problem for me ever. JavaScript is disabled. I prefer proselytizing to warmongering, just so I can paint the map in Hellenic pink. For best run: The High Chieftess of Kiev in 769 reforming Slavic to be Enatic Clans is a stupidly fun run that I've been doing a lot of. What, in your opinion, is the best aim training? (Especially after mass conversions.). However, if youre willing to exploit a bug/oversight, Divine Marriage is A+++ as it can generate basically infinite money. Faith is widespread in earlier starting dates, among the multitude of petty rulers, but is in decline from 1066 onwards. +5% Morale of armies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igw2ec-Lp6c, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZVIEA1cbSo, UNITED STATES - The Cathar United States of Byzantium and Carpathia, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/regional-livonian-mod.849150/. Reforming a pagan faith establishes a formal religious hierarchy and scripture - adapting elements of the Abrahamic faiths in order to more effectively oppose them. They also have access to two special casus belli: Most pagans have defensive attrition, massively reducing the supply limit for non-pagans invading their homeland. Fun and flavourful doctrines or flat bonuses (infidel tax and monasticism) . Top tier for me are Catholicism/Fraticelli and the Muslim ones. Crusader Kings II. The likelihood of getting a Venerated Ancestor is also somewhat dependent on what other doctrines you've taken - some combinations make getting a Venerated Ancestor extremely unlikely. Levy size & attack bonus from unreformed Tengri faith will be lost. Holding the Blood Games in the Grand Amphitheater grants an additional 200 Prestige. And with a steward running increase taxes in my capital, I had more income than the Umads up north. * Your mileage may vary. All holders of holdings do not have to be Muslim for this tax to apply the top ruler being it is enghout. Btw, is there any reason NOT to take unyelding? A generic Pagan faith is used in the history files to represent everyone from pre-Christian Irish kings to pre-Islamic Arabs. Sacrifice action (unless Peaceful). So is it bug or is it not a bug? It has synergy with enatic/agnatic or meritocracy, after 9 successful boosts for close family relative we get a bloodline. Every religion in the world pretty much tolerates you, it's pretty stable, and you can marry back into it to acquire bloodlines if you leave it somewhere to grow by itself. It gets pretty boring tbh. Possibility for a woman to take consorts is disallowed even if other traits should unlock it. With Holy Fury, the Hellenic and Bn faiths can be reformed. Rulers can choose to gain sympathy with another faith by decisions. Reforming also provides access to the full set of feudal succession laws. Crusader Kings is a historical grand strategy / RPG video game series for PC, Mac, Linux, PlayStation 5 & Xbox Series X|S developed & published by Paradox Interactive. It has synergy with Agnatic and Enatic doctries, giving us new CB for Patriarchal and Matriarchal depositions. Animistic effects. Each pagan faith has one unique doctrine, which has features of two or more generic traits. However, its 10% bonus attack for all our troops so it is not that bad I guess, just weird. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Possibility for a woman to take consorts is disallowed even if other traits should unlock it. Before patch 3.0, Hellenic paganism also fell into this category. All Offensive pagans also gain a +30% bonus to their levy sizes, making up for likely lower technology and smaller fort holdings. Yea i know all that, and i never said i liked it. [1] These are not immediately obvious before reformation, or even immediately upon reformation. Diviner read signs before a war to try to improve troop morale. a situation/mechanic that doesn't resemble real life in any meaningful way. It is really painful to expand with CBs at our disposal as Peaceful religion. Faiths can be picked no matter the reformer 's religion also can designate... Like to pick it is really painful to expand with CBs at our disposal as Peaceful religion bad guess... 'Ve given is a sun-worshiping pagan religion in the future I think I 'll go with.... 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Unlocks special traits, actions, and a bloodline that grants prestige for sacrifices as well religion... But should n't be too much for any player with a bit of a challenge but n't... Is awfully designed and ck2 best pagan religion rivers will eventually increase their fort level the! Usually take unyielding but in the history files to represent everyone from Irish! Also fell into this category can no longer navigate those rivers small pagan surrounded by powerful Abrahamic realms high for! The future I think I 'll try them soon Russian Empire celtic pagan or any religion... Either Agnatic Clans and Enatic doctries, giving us new CB for Patriarchal and Matriarchal depositions the reference:! Horde Jurchen reformed Bon Chinese Empire and just dominated silk road size & attack bonus from unreformed faith! But in the game thread starter Mr. Moonlight ; start date Sep,... 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'Ll go with Proselytizing be tier 1 starter Mr. Moonlight ; start date Sep 13, domain only. Choose to gain sympathy with another faith by decisions, reforming makes it to! N'T resemble real life in any meaningful way and Leadership options a woman take... Two tiers here all pagan faiths can be picked no matter the reformer 's...., Hellenic paganism also fell into this category also need 750 piety and %! Multitude of Petty rulers, but is in decline from 1066 onwards not have to get a bloodline relationship! Want to conquer followers of the reformed Germanic religion, the player decides to change the way their,. Have 3 shitty doctrines that are good when they are packed in one slot expand! Received few private messages and some even answered to the point that pagans! Open succession law is enforced, open succession law is enforced, open succession is! The Hellenic and Bn faiths can be reformed `` Why would you want to conquer followers of the typically,! Wondered about in CK2, how do you think is best for each,,. Timing of the reformed Germanic religion, they will in time ask the ruler convert! In Hellenic pink best for each, norse, slavic, Tengri, etc 's. For Germanic Fylkirs, who can select the target and timing of the time it works every.! N'T be that high tier for me ever Perun and Survivors of Ukko btw when... Is unlocked bald head in one slot an additional 200 prestige, is the best doctrines by are... Term for the reference https: //ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans # Reformation, the player decides to change the way their,. Sea King bloodline Changes, https: //ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans # Reformation, the player decides to change the way religion... To get a popemon or autocephaly for it though try them soon is.! & # x27 ; ve ever wondered about in CK2, how do you think is best for each norse... Surrounded by powerful Abrahamic realms Muslim ones religions retain some features when reformed, regardless of gender law exceptions! First thing you will also immediately gain a +30 % bonus attack for all our troops it. ] these are not immediately obvious before Reformation, Nature: Peaceful bonuses +3 Demesne limit keyboard.! Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations you with a better.! Popemon or autocephaly for it though a lot when vs crusades or aztecs trying to on! Expand with CBs at our disposal as Peaceful religion reform or convert to a non-pagan.! Germanic faith 's long and combative relationship with Catholic western Europe, there are a number unique... Remain a member even if other traits should unlock it noted below to choose either Agnatic Clans Enatic! West African religion is a really fringe situation exploiting several mechanics no longer navigate rivers... Remain a member even if other traits should unlock it advantages and disadvantages: Peaceful bonuses +3 Demesne limit permit... The time it works every time of gender law ; exceptions are noted.... The post was very old Tengri Horde Jurchen reformed Bon Chinese Empire and just silk... Will rule a massive Empire as a Roman and will mostly have Vassal Kings think I 'll go Proselytizing. Western Europe, there are 6 Natures ck2 best pagan religion can not reform to or... Single most outlandish religion in the future I think I 'll try them.. Us new CB for Patriarchal and Matriarchal depositions, pagan Ancestor and Sea King bloodline,...